Blackedition F5J packs presentation and testing
Welcome reader to the most informative commercial pages for LiPo cells for your RC models.
This is our first article in English version since here presented new extremely high Amp discharge LiPo packs for modern FAI F5J model airplanes. Links to other articles from the LiPo.si Academy are in Slovenian language, but then can be translated quite well with Google translate.
Ta prispevek je spisan v angleškem jeziku, saj bodo paketi poželi veliko interesa v tujini. Svetujemo Google translate oziroma povprašajte v komentarjih če vas kaj zanima. Ostali prispevki so v slovenskem jeziku.
Blackedition line of of LiPos is a project of well known F5x pilot Primož Rižner from Slovenia.
Source: European Championship 2024 FAI F5J page
What is Blackedition?
This is Primož’s own brand of very custom F5J packs.
- narrow to fit in tight fuselages
- optimised wire gauge and pack format
- Very compact with minimal wire length and balance connector lead length to take minimal additional space
- very powerful – up to *real* 120C (Ultra line)!
- fast charging up to 10-20 Amps capable
- Ultra line tested up to 1000 cycles
- LiHV charging up to 4.4V/cell
- Made by Grepow company – producer of Gens Ace & Tattu packs
Blackedition Classic line 60C 900mAh & 1000mAh – real 100C 30sec discharge!
Blackedition Ultra line 150C 600mAh & 770mAh – 90C/120C real 30sec discharge!
Most of the stock is carried at Primož Rižner warehouse. You can order directly from him. As of December 2024 we carry in stock 600mAh 120C 4S packs and 900mAh 4S packs were lately also adopted by Gens Ace.
LiPo.si testing of the Blackedition F5J LiPo packs
What is very good to know before reading our testing
We are quite sure that most of the readers will get much of the new information reading these tests. Before we deep dive into this matter we need to clarify few well tested and proven facts of the Genspow made packs.
Blackedition LiPo packs are your champion choice, but you need to know:
We have excellent reputation of giving the best information to our customers. Combine that with the excellent quality of Grepow packs we have almost no RMA. Many customers report 100s of cycles over the years, we even have 13 year old packs with 1000+ cycles still in use (yes, those legendary 25C series!)
You can Google translate our articles:
Informacije o LiPo akumulatorjih
Tri informacijske brošure, ki že več kot desetletje ponujajo osnovo poznavanja LiPo paketov, polnilne tehnike...
Maj
Življenska doba LiPo paketov
razpišemo se o cikličnem in časovnem staranju. Pokažemo, da lahko tokovno zmogljivi paketi dosežejo tudi...
Mar
Shranjevanje LiPo paketov
je izredno pomembno, za zagotavljanje dolge življenske dobe in varnosti vaših visokozmogljivih LiPo paketov!
Mar
Izbira polnilnika
Zanesljiv in kvaliteten polnilnik lahko ne samo podaljša življensko dobo paketov, ampak tudi prepreči kakšen...
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Polnjenje LiPo paketov
Kako si lahko z različnimi pristopi polnjenja pohitrite in si čakanje pri polnilniku spremenite v...
Mar
Most modellers use 1C charge. But with high performance >25C Gens Ace packs it is no problem to charge 5C (already in 2010!), 10C, 20C even 33C for some >95C packs!
Fast charging heats up the pack thus lowering its internal resistance and preparing it for high Amp discharge at higher voltage – i.e. higher power!
No, fast charging at 10C doesn’t hurt performance nor cycle life. No, you won’t blow up your Blackeditions this way!
Yes, you can slowly charge the pack, but it won’t delivery the same power you will get from heated up (40°C) pack after quick fast charge.
The most important thing is to be sure, that after the charging is complete (which is only 2-5 minutes!) you need to begin discharging the pack as fast as possible. Otherwise fast charging makes no point.
Please read (use Google translate for example):
Hitro polnjenje Gens Ace LiPo paketov
Kako hitro se lahko polni Gens Ace pakete? Primerjava praznjenj po počasnem in hitrem polnjenju...
Mar
Testiranja paketov 3S 450mAh do 1000mAh
Izjemno poučen prispevek o obnašanju malih LiPo paketov pod 1Ah pri visokih praznilnih tokovih. #preberime
Maj
Primerjava Gens Ace paketov s konkurenco
V primerjavo smo dobili pakete proizvajalca CNHL, ki kupce privablja z velikimi popusti in nizkimi...
Mar
500 ciklov!
Dokažemo, da naši kvalitetni Gens Ace paketi zmorejo veliko ciklov tudi pri ultra hitrem polnjenju...
Maj
For field fast charging we have LFP packs with our chargers for attractive price. Remember we offer full support before and after the buy:
C rating nowadays (and already 15 years ago) is only label number and good for marketing. It can be very misleading for typical consumer.
It is not possible to compare different packs after C rating label. So real tests are needed. Even we have much problems explaining why some Gens Ace packs of only 60C outperform those at 140C!
While some youtube influencers are trying hard to compare packs, they are usually using only 1C charge, which is doesn’t provide good performance for high discharge. External heating of the packs is just too complicated. We recommend fast charging your F5J Blackedition packs right before the run.
We suggest temperature of 35 – 40°C before the run. Use fast charging to heat up the pack or if this is not possible at least your own body temperature. Running at below 25°C at high Amp discharge is hurting performance and cycle life of your Blackedition packs!
Also please do not overdischarge (disharge at max 90% of the rated capacity!) for good cycle life ( at least 2 years, 300 – 400 cycles).
Yes, your Blackedition LiPo packs can be LiHV charged, i.e. 4,35V or even 4,4V/cell.
The “trick” here is to fast charge the packs (5 to 10C) and immidiately (few minutes at most) discharge them after the charge. This way you will not hurt their performance – test proven!
But you will decrease performance and capacity if you slowly charge them to LiHV (1C) and leave them fully charge for longer than 10 minutes. They will puff badly or even burst if left fully charged at 4.3V/cell for longer periods of time, so beware!
Internal resistance numbers can be quite good factor when comparing the current performance of different packs, but they are not everything. When comparing discharge curves we wneed to mention
Blackedition Ultra 150C 600 or 770mAh packs have IR as low as 2.x mOhm/cell when at 50°C, but can be as high as 30 mOhm/cell resting at room temperature. Why is this? Well you need low IR when needed for discharge, but for long cycle life you need packs at high IR when storing. V5 R-Line chemistry is very tricky. As soon as some decent load is applied to the pack, the IR drops dramatically if at lower than 25°C temps. But having the pack ready at 40°C it can deliver more power instantly. You will see that on the discharge curves later on.
Primož is using his Classic line LiPos for 2 seasons with 100s of cycles.
We have proven that Ultra chemistry (Tattu R-Line V5 150C) can do 1000 cycles:
500 ciklov!
Dokažemo, da naši kvalitetni Gens Ace paketi zmorejo veliko ciklov tudi pri ultra hitrem polnjenju...
Maj
Primerjava Gens Ace paketov s konkurenco
V primerjavo smo dobili pakete proizvajalca CNHL, ki kupce privablja z velikimi popusti in nizkimi...
Mar
First cycles
Our proven “recipe” for long lasting Gens Ace & Tattu LiPo packs is to start quite gentle in the first 5 cycles. We are using proven Junsi iCharger chargers we also sell.
- 5 cycles at 2A charge till 4.1V/cell (Li-Ion) in discharging at ca 2-5C till 3.7V/cell. The photo below is just a sample photo from testing larger capacity pack:
Prva polnjenja LiPo paketov
S pravilnim postopkom prvih nekaj polnjenj in praznjenj lahko LiPo paketom ne samo podaljšamo življenske...
Mar
Test equipment
We trust our Junsi iChargers connected via USB cable to a PC running DataExplorer software. We use multiple old 6S LiPo 4000-5000mAh packs wired in parallel as a source and then discharge the tested pack via synchronous regenerative discharging to achieve maximal currents.
How we tested:
- Charging at 2 Amps (low C charge, 4.25V/cell)
- Charging at 10 Amps (fast charge, 4,25V/cell)
- Charging at 10 Amps (fast charge, 4,4V/cell)
Charging at 20 Amps (ultra fast charge, 4,4V/cell)
Discharge at 40 / 70 Amps immediately after charging is completed for 30 seconds (F5J motor time)
- iCharger measurement of single cell (worst cell of the pack) is shown on the discharge curve.
Blackedition 1000mAh 3S 60C – 40 Amp discharge
2Amp charge discharge curve – light blue
10Amp charge discharge curve – brown
10Amp LiHV charge discharge curve – pinkVoltage drop after 2 Amp charge is usually where testers will raise their eyebrows, but not us. Just #push the pack with #highCcharge and try again. No problem now! The curve is very flat and the voltage/power is much higher – the way to go! We are speaking here of almost 12% more power. If you let the pack go below 20°C the differences will be in the range of up to 25 – 30% (at 3V/cell) !
Blackedition 1000mAh 3S 60C – 40 & 70 Amp discharge
2Amp charge and 40A dischrge curve – light blue
10Amp LiHV charge and 70A discharge curve – redWe can easily see that we can get higher power from fast LiHV charging at 70A load than only 2Amp charge and 40A load. Temperature + fast charging can do “miracles” with Blackedition packs 🙂
Blackedition 1000mAh 3S 60C – 70 Amp discharge
10Amp charge – brown curve
20Amp LiHV charge – pink curveIf we want to push the pack to the ultimate high Amp discharge performance, we need to “heat up” even more – 20 Amp + LiHV 4.4V/cell charging can provide even higher power (740W vs 717W)
Where are other discharge curves?
We won’t bother you with that many curves, since all go on the same principle as shown above of the 1000mAh case.
Blackedition all packs – 900/1000/600/770mAh – 40A discharge
After 10 Amp LiPo charging, the 40A discharge curves of all the packs looks VERY similar. The green curves are Classic and the pink/purple ones are Ultra. It is expected that the Ultra curves are of lower voltage despite much higher C rate. The smaller weight plays the main role here, we can trick out the chemistry/physics. But given the fact that Ultra 600mAh weights whooping 45% less than Classic 1000mAh pack and gives almost the same power it is astounding!
Blackedition all packs – 900/1000/600/770mAh – 70A discharge after LiHV 10A charge
Here we are looking for absolute most power these packs are capable of!
After 10 Amp LiHV charing (4.4V/cell), the 70 Amp discharge for 30 seconds , all the packs perform similar. The slight winner is the light green – the 900mAh version. But here the differences are so small that even slightly longer wire or dirty/too small connectors play crucial role on the real power output. The green curves are Classic and the pink/purple ones are Ultra. It is expected that the Ultra curves are of lower voltage despite much higher C rate. The smaller weight plays the main role here, we can trick out the chemistry/physics. But given the fact that Ultra 600mAh weights whooping 45% less than Classic 1000mAh pack and gives almost the same power it is astounding!
Blackedition all packs – max power 40& 70A discharge
Maximum power numbers from our tests for those how like to crunch some numbers. After all said, 69 gram pack – the Ultra 600mAh 4S can provied almost 1000W of power is simply amazing even for us 🙂
Conclusion
Classic Line Blackedition LiPos are already great performer. But if you need even more compact, lighter and at keep the same power level, then you look no further, try Ultra Line Blackeditions, you will be surprised! Invest in a good compact LiPo charger with at least 10A charge current and some LFP or old LiPo 6S 5000mAh pack as a power source. Good timing – charging just before the run and you will have maximum power available! But as already Primož noted – beware that you don’t burn out your motor! Better start with a lower pitch prop first. 🙂
OUR CURRENT f5j PACK OFFERING
Gens Ace 900mAh 4S packs and LiPo.si made 4S2P Tattu R-line 1100mAh 95C pack.
Also interesting 4S narrow LiPO packs
Are the 2024 Cinewhoop packs. We tested them here at LiPo.si. But the “problem” here is the width (or height if you want) of the packs which might not fit in our narrow fuselage. Also to be tested is real 30s 70A discharge. Blackedition Ultra pack can carry such loads without a problem.
A photo showing 600mAh (660mAh LiHV) Ultra 4S pack (among 550 and 650mAh packs):
Primerjava paličastih Tattu 450mAh – 850mAh LiHV paketkov
Mali "dinamitki" pod LiPo.si drobnogledom!
Jul
If you have questions, please feel free to ask in the comments section below.
Hitro polnjenje Gens Ace LiPo paketov
Kako hitro se lahko polni Gens Ace pakete? Primerjava praznjenj po počasnem in hitrem polnjenju...
Shranjevanje LiPo paketov
je izredno pomembno, za zagotavljanje dolge življenske dobe in varnosti vaših visokozmogljivih LiPo paketov!
(Pre)praznjenje LiPo paketov
Skoraj vsi modeli/igrače na tržišču, ki uporabljajo za napajanje LiPo pakete brez elektronike le-te uničujejo!
500 ciklov!
Dokažemo, da naši kvalitetni Gens Ace paketi zmorejo veliko ciklov tudi pri ultra hitrem polnjenju...
Prosimo upoštevajte:
Avtor: Miha Holc
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